Take the 2-minute tour ×
Chinese Language Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for students, teachers, and linguists wanting to discuss the finer points of the Chinese language. It's 100% free, no registration required.

A couple years ago, I was at a Chinese(-American) gathering and the topic of 成语 came up. One of them was 三更半夜. My family is from Hangzhou, and previously I had always known of it as 深更半夜. On the other hand, someone from the northeast noted that she was accustomed to saying 三经半夜. After comparing among all of ourselves, it seemed that southerners tended to use 深更半夜 while northerners tended to use 三经半夜.

Is this a well-documented phenomenon? That is, is this actually a thing, or was our observation due to pure coincidence?

share|improve this question
4  
It should be 三(geng1)半夜. In northern China, this shift was deliberate as a result of 避讳. It originated in Peking operas as the founder or some recent master has 庚 in his name. So geng1 must be avoided on the stage and all geng1 sound was changed to jing1. –  user58955 Mar 19 at 10:26
    
In the dictionary, it should be pronounced as "geng", not "jing". But as far as I know, in Beijing dialect it usually pronounced as "jing", such as "三更(jing)天", "打更(jing)", etc. –  songyuanyao Mar 19 at 12:02
    
Cool. What about 深 in the south? –  Tony Mar 19 at 14:43
    
Classically, it is pronounced ''jing'', whereas the modern official pronunciation is ''geng''. –  Ma Ming Mar 24 at 13:58

4 Answers 4

I come from a family that speaks Cantonese, and we say 三更半夜 (although my mother says 半夜三更 I don't know why). 三更半夜 refers to "midnight" (doesn't have to be exactly 12:00 am, but some time around 11:00 pm and 2:00 am mainly). One time I was still up at 1:30 am and my father comes in and says 「現在三更半夜,你還沒有睡覺嗎?」. Basically what he was saying was, "It is very late. You are still awake?"

share|improve this answer
    
How about the pronunciation of 更? OP cares for it more. –  songyuanyao Mar 23 at 9:45
2  
I am pretty sure it is "sān gēng bàn yè" but I am not sure (I don't speak much Mandarin) –  JChau Mar 23 at 18:10
    
I think the op is looking for an answer that covers this topic more holistically –  deutschZuid Mar 24 at 6:12

三更 is a Chinese term which means midnight.

19—21时 戌时 一更
21—23时 亥时 二更
23— 1时 子时 三更
1— 3时 丑时 四更
3— 5时 寅时 五更

So you can see, 三更 also means 深更. I think 更(jing1) or 深(sheng) is just dialect.

share|improve this answer
    
Where does the op mention 三深? –  deutschZuid Mar 24 at 6:13
    
@deutschZuid Sorry, edit the answer now. –  Ave Maleficum Mar 24 at 6:18

The same way how Americans pronunciate "our" like "R" when it should be pronunciate as "hour", your friend perhaps was using regional dialect to pronunciate "更" as 经.

However, I disagree with all explainations above. Both 深更半夜 and 三更半夜 are idioms although they have the exact same meaning, they are not dialect.

share|improve this answer

Both "三更(gēng)半夜" and "深更(gēng)半夜" are correct. They are listed in most modern Chinese dictionaries. And "半夜三更" and "半夜深更" could also be used as there are no change in the meaning at all, although they may sound peculiar to some people, but they are totally correct to use. (Actually, in Chinese reverse such word constructions are widely used in many case to improve the variety of the text).

However, 三经半夜 is not valid or formal Chinese. 经 cannot be used to substitute 更 both in writing or in pronunciation in formal Chinese. However, it is widely used in speaking but it's widely believed to be a mispronunciation widely adopted. There are many similar cases that average Chinese use pronunciations which is not listed in dictionaries. You could say there is a gap between the speaking system and the writing system of Chinese. But those mismatches are normally minor and most of the time the meaning can be inferred from the context.

About 更

The essential meaning of the character is "Change"

It is also used as a time unit. In ancient China, a day is divided into 12 parts. Each part is called 时, thus it is equal to two hours. According to http://www.guoxue.com/?p=4025 in Han dynasty, there were five shifts during the night in the palace.

  1. 一更/头更:戌时 19:00 – 21:00

  2. 二更:亥时 21:00 – 23:00

  3. 三更:子时 23:00 – 01:00

  4. 四更:丑时 01:00 – 03:00

  5. 五更:寅时 03:00 – 05:00

So 更 actually means the change of shift originally.

Regarding the difference between 三更 and 深更, from the table above you can see 三更 is actually midnight. 深更 means deep in the night, so basically they are the same thing except 深更 could also be used to refer 四更 or 五更 literally. But when used in 成语 and in combination with 半夜, they don't mean the literal, exact time, they just mean late in the night or midnight in general. In the past, numbers in Chinese are often used figuratively rather than indicating the exact.

share|improve this answer

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.