9

Many people interpret the Chinese proverb, 孩子帶財 as that children can bring the wealth to the family and improve the family economy. Therefore, many people do not agree with it. Because, the economy might not get better, and the parents still have to spend a lot of money for children. As a result, it is deemed as only an excuse to persuade people to have children.

However, there is a Chinese saying, 兒孫自有兒孫福 (the descendants have their own fortune). It shows not only that children have their own fortune, but also the correctness of 孩子帶財.

If 孩子帶財 is not a phrase to persuade people to have children, people must have some reasons to say it. What are the reasons? How to interpret it in detail and then its correctness? Is it possible to explain it from the viewpoint of "cause and effect"?

許多人將「孩子帶財」這句俗語解釋為:「孩子能帶來財富,使家中經濟變好。」所以,很多人不同意這句話。因為,經濟狀況可能沒有變好,還要為孩子花很多錢。也因此,這句話就被當成是「勸人生子」的話而已。

但是,中國有一句古語:「兒孫自有兒孫福」。這句說明了古人即認為孩子有他們的福,也證明了「孩子帶財」是對的。

如果「孩子帶財」不是用來勸人生子,那此語的流傳必有其因。此因為何?要如何詳細解釋,並證明它的正確性?能用「因果」來解釋嗎?

  • 1
    Might be better to put this on skeptics - than Chinese SE – user3306356 Jan 4 '17 at 11:48
  • This seems more about Buddhism than the Chinese language. Seems off-topic to me. – Betty Jan 4 '17 at 13:05
9
+600

容我用《雜寶藏經》中的一個公案來解釋。

Let me explain with an instance in the 《Miscellaneous Treasure Sutra》.

昔,波斯匿王於臥眠中,聞二內官共諍道理;
一作是言:「我依王活。」
一人答言:「我無所依,自業力活。」

When King Pasenadi (6th century B.C.E.) lay down to sleep, he heard an argument of two internal officials.
A said, "I live by the king."
B answered, "I don't rely on anyone, but live by my own power of karma."

王聞此已,情可於彼依王活者,而欲賞之。
即遣直人語夫人言:「我今當使一人往者,重與錢財、衣服、瓔珞。」
於是尋遣依王活者,持己所飲餘殘之酒,以與夫人。

After hearing it, the king agreed with the official A in mind and wanted to reward him.
First the king sent a person on duty to tell the queen, "I will dispatch a person to you today. You give him a lot of money, clothes and precious necklaces."
Then the king immediately sent the official A to take the king's remaining wine to the queen.

爾時此人持酒出戶,鼻中血出,不得前進。會復值彼自業活者,即倩持酒往與夫人。

When the official A went out with the wine, he had a nosebleed and couldn't go any further. Just at that time he met the official B and asked him to take the wine to the queen.

夫人見已,憶王之言,賜其錢財、衣服、瓔珞,還於王前。

When the queen saw the official B, she recalled the king's words and gave him money, clothes and necklaces. Then she sent him back to the king.

王見此人,深生怪惑;即便喚彼依王活者而問之言:「我使汝去,云何不去?」
答言:「我出戶外,卒得衂鼻,竟不堪任,即便倩彼持王殘酒以與夫人。」
王時歎言:「我今乃知佛語為實,自作其業,自受其報,不可奪也。」

When the king saw the official B, he was deeply astonished and confused. He immediately called the official A and asked, "I dispatched you. Why didn't you go?"
He answered with the facts. (same as above, omitted)
The king then sighed and said, "I am now aware that the Buddha's words are true. Who makes the cause bears the effect. It cannot be taken away."

由是觀之,善惡報應,行業所致,非天、非王之所能與。

According to this, good or evil results come from one's own actions. They cannot be given by gods or kings.

首先,我必需澄清:業包括善與惡的行為和它們的果報。

First of all I have to clarify that karma includes both good and evil actions and their effects.

這個公案告訴我們:我們都依自己的業而活。
這些業包括前世已造的和今生新造的。
所以,子女出生時,會帶著自己前世的業而來,包括財富。
這說明“孩子帶財來”是對的。是帶著孩子自己的財富而來,是孩子自己要用的。

The instance tells us that we live by our own karma.
The karma includes those made in the past and present lives.
Therefore, the children are born with their own karma made in the past lives, including wealth.
This shows that "孩子帶財來" is right.
They bring their own wealth for themselves.

但在兒女能賺錢之前,必需經由父母獲得財富。
所以,父母的收入可能會增加。

But before children can make money, they must acquire their wealth through the parents.
Therefore, the parents' income may increase.

不過,因果錯綜複雜,不能只看一項。譬如,
a. 父母在財富方面的業有多少?
b. 兒女的財業有多少?
c. 這些財富何時會得到?
d. 父母和子女雙方在前世有無債務?誰欠誰?
e. 可能還有很多我們想不到的業。

However, the karma is very complex. We cannot consider only one aspect. For example,
a. How much karma of wealth do the parents have?
b. How much karma of wealth do the children have?
c. When can the wealth be obtained?
d. Were there any debts between parents and children in their previous lives? Who owes whom?
e. There may be more karma that we cannot think of.

考慮這些因素,會有很多不同的情形。

Taking into account these factors, there will be a lot of different situations.

  1. 父母和兒女都有富有的果報:

在孩子出生後,父母的收入會明顯增加,也願意為孩子花錢。孩子就會在優渥的環境下成長。
這些父母通常就是贊成“孩子帶財”的人。

  1. Both parents and children have effects of richness:

After the birth of children, the parents' income can increase obviously. And they are also willing to spend money for their children. The children will then grow up in a good environment.
These parents are usually in favor of "孩子帶財".

  1. 父母和兒女都有貧窮的果報:

在孩子出生後,父母的收入不會明顯增加。如果剛好是父母的貧窮業果成熟時,他們的收入甚至還會減少。這不是孩子造成的,而是父母自己的業報。如此一來,孩子就會在較不好的環境下被養大。這是孩子自己的果報。
這些父母通常就是否定“孩子帶財”的人。

  1. Both parents and children have effects of poverty:

After the birth of children, the parents' income will not increase apparently. If the parents' karma of poverty happens to take effect in this period, their income will even reduce. It's not caused by the children, but by the parents' own fruits of karma. As a result, the children will be raised in a bad environment. This is the children's own effects of karma.
These parents are usually those who deny "孩子帶財".

當然還有很多種情況,限於篇幅與業的複雜性,無法一一說明。留給聰明的你,自行推敲。

Certainly there are more situations. I cannot explain all of them due to the limited space and the complexity of karma. Leave them to the smart you to think about.

可能有人會問:要如何增加財富的業呢?
答案很簡單,就是“多做善事,幫助需要幫助的人”。

Some people may ask, "How to increase the karma of wealth?"
The answer is very simple, and that is, "Do more good deeds and help those who need help."

自作自受(不限壞事)
The one who makes the causes, bears the effects.

  • Excellent! It's exactly what I am expecting. Thank you very much. – user-487 Jan 5 '17 at 10:39
9

種瓜得瓜,種豆得豆。
As one sows, so shall one reap.

依據佛法,我們前世都修了一些福,今生才能投胎做人。這些善行的果報會在一生當中不同的時段出現。年輕時期出現的這部分是要用來成長和受教育的。

On the basis of Buddhism, all of us have done some good deeds in our past lives so that we can be human beings in this life. The effects of these good deeds will show up in different periods during the lifetime. The part shown in youth is used for growth and education.

除了少數的特例以外,父母都會將孩子教養長大。這些教養的費用大多是孩子帶來的財。也就是說,父母為孩子花的錢大多是孩子帶來的財。這些是孩子前世行善的果報。

Besides a few exceptions, the parents will raise and educate the children. The upbringing expenses are mostly the wealth brought by the children. In other words, the money that parents spend for their children is mostly the wealth brought by the children. These are the children's fruits of karma due to their good deeds in the past lives.

2

I have never heard of the phrase 孩子帶財,but judging from the wording, it sounded like a logical fallacy of "correlation imply causation "

The fallacy: "Couples who have money tend to have children, therefore people who have children must also have money ." It is an illogical argument. Wealthy people have children doesn't mean having children make them wealthy.

As for「兒孫自有兒孫福」, it is a folk saying that means " You will die before your children. It is useless to worry about their future too much. Your children will have their own fortune. For that reason, you don't have to leave them too much money. It has nothing to do with "children bring wealth" . A similar expression of 「兒孫自有兒孫福」is 「不替子女買良田」( don't leave your children too much wealth because they would not be motivated to make it on their own )

In the old time, to persuade someone to marry a person he or she never met, people would use the same fallacy and told that person " See how most married couple love each other? After you married, you will grow to love each other."

My conclusion is, 孩子帶財(Children will bring you wealth) is a phrase to persuade people to have children based on the logically fallacy of "correlation imply causation"

  • Thank you for your answer. As I mentioned it in the question, I already knew it. What I expect is an answer which can prove its correctness. – user-487 Dec 25 '16 at 10:30
  • People also use 儿孙自有儿孙福 to try to persuade other people not to interfere with their children's own life or decision. – Huang Dec 25 '16 at 23:12
1

Not sure where you've got this statement."孩子帶財" can be interpreted as either the child will bring wealth to the family (literally), or the child will bring their own money (that is, the money needed to raise them up). The second one is more common as young couples who plan to have a child are often told "don't worry, the child will bring his/ her own money to the world".

  • I have searched 孩子帶財, 子女帶財 and 兒女帶財 on the Web. Many parents talked about their experiences. – young99 Dec 26 '16 at 9:08
1
However, there is a Chinese saying, 兒孫自有兒孫福
(the descendants have their own fortune).
It shows not only that children have their own fortune,
but also the correctness of 孩子帶財.

i would interpret "福" as "福份", "福氣" (blessed, or fortune); while "財" as "錢財" (wealth). these two are different concepts; so, "兒孫自有兒孫福" cannot prove, or refute the saying "孩子帶財".

那此語的流傳必有其因。此因為何?

well, based on my experience, the saying "孩子帶財" is un-literary-chinese.

several sites are searched, including kanseki repository, chinese text project & cbeta 漢文大藏經.

none of these site shown exact match results.

then, old hk newspapers was tried, also, no exact match result. which means this saying didn't occur in newspapers, periodicals in hong kong, between 1853 - 1984.

therefore, the interim conclusion is: "孩子帶財" is not a revival of ancient saying; it's a new & recent one.

next, i tried bing on windows, and google on mac os; the search results is interesting:

the earliest exact match is in 2003:

(生一個,給我一筆錢,我就相信孩子帶財庫)
我想就算孩子帶財庫,也比不上我們家債務增長的速度吧...

http://bbs.kimy.com.tw/forumTopic_new.asp?topicID=98094&sort=ASC&offset=10&allReply=y

next one is in 2004, in the same forum:

(孩子自己會帶糧草來)(說不定這孩子帶財)

http://bbs.kimy.com.tw/forumTopic_new.asp?topicID=227735&allReply=y&offset=0

another one is in 2007:

每個孩子有他自己福分,有的孩子帶財庫,庇蔭父母。 

https://tw.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071022000015KK03199

afterward, it flourished in 2010s.

my opinion about this saying "孩子帶財", in sequence :)

my initial response when reading this saying is: bxxx sxxx (actually, it's an uncivilised word, in cantonese; which i'm not dare to write it here).

next, i tried to analyse the regional, cultural origin, usage.

last, after the above searching, i would accept that this saying has its positive psychological effect, for those pregnant women who are facing financial difficulty.

If 孩子帶財 is not a phrase to persuade people to have children,
people must have some reasons to say it. What are the reasons?
How to interpret it in detail and then its correctness?
Is it possible to explain it from the viewpoint of "cause and effect"?

about its correctness. for developed society, with a low rate of infant mortality, when parents do not worry about the health of their babies, when, they concern the expense of parentings; then, "孩子帶財" has its positive comforting effect.

but, for undeveloped world, or war zone; when everyone is struggle for survival, such saying is non-sense. it's "more" proper to use "兒孫自有兒孫福" in this situation, to encourage people to have children.

have fun :)

  • you're welcome :) just curious; may i ask, well, why you set a bounty for this question? is it related to your own situation? – 水巷孑蠻 Dec 31 '16 at 11:31

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.