不是要求以小组为单位做报告吗?
Context: a conversation about an economics class in high school.
The Chinese Grammar Wiki says "以 A 为 B" means "using/taking A as B", but it still doesn't make sense to me.
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1What part of " (use/take) small groups (as) units" you not understand ? You can apply "using/taking A as B" in different sentences, for example, "(use) pound (as) standard"; "(take) five people (as) one team"– Tang Ho ♦Commented Sep 8, 2017 at 20:25
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1Am I not asking you to report by （以） group as (为) a unit?– user16115Commented Sep 8, 2017 at 20:25
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1不是要求以小组为单位做报告 I do not ask you to form groups (in order) to make out reports cf. jukuu：4. The teacher asked the students to sit in groups so as to have group discussion. 老师让学生们以小组为单位坐好，以便进行小组讨论。– user6065Commented Sep 8, 2017 at 21:27
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@user6065;@user16115, The speaker may not be the requester/commander in this case. So, "Am I not asking..." or "I do not ask..." could be wrong interpretation in this case.– danCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 3:39
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reporting your understanding, at team level.– Daniel YangCommented Sep 15, 2017 at 10:33
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3 Answers
IMO, when 以...为... is used as a verb phrase, it should be translated to "using/taking A as B". For example, 他们以胖为美。== They take fat as beauty.
When it is used as a prepositional phrase, we could use the prepositional word by to interpret.
For example, 以小时为单位 could be simply translated to "by the hour". We are paid by the hour. == 我们以小时(为单位)计费。为单位 could be omitted in this case.
Apparently, in this context, it's a prepositional phrase. So,
不是要求以小组为单位做报告吗?
one possible translation:
Isn't the demand/request to do the reporting by group?
Here 以小组为单位 could be interpreted as "by group".
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1"in small groups", as seen in Sati's answer. (I'm not a native speaker of English, though)– PhilippCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 6:24
An appropriate translation will be:
Aren't we supposed to do the report in small groups?
以小组为单位 literally means working as a unit (in small groups). The wiki is not wrong in translating 以 as 'using/taking'. The phrase simply means we should take 'small groups' as a unit to do the work.
The subject of the verb 要求 has been omitted in this case. Someone has apparently given the instruction to work in groups. That's why the speaker is asking to clarify the status of the instruction.
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'Supposed' is more like 'should' to me, which is much more weaker than 要求 I think.– danCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 8:00
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@dan, 要求 does come across as quite strong when taken out of context, especially if you think of it as something loosely equivalent to 'demand'. But I think 'supposed' is precisely its meaning over here. Take this phrase, for example: 「不是应该以小组做讨论吗？」 I don't see a change of voice over here.– SatiCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 8:14
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Actually not, 不是应该以小组做讨论吗？ vs 不是要求以小组为单位做报告吗? The former implies ‘we should not do this way’ and the latter implies 'we can not do this way'. The speaker conveys a strong tone here, and it could sometimes be considered even as a blame if it was said by a leader.– danCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 8:26
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I think you misinterpreted the meaning of the sentences. 「不是.应该.以小组.做讨论.吗？」is a rhetorical question meaning 'I thought we should'. Similarly, 「不是.要求.以小组.为单位.做报告.吗? 」means 'I thought we've been asked to do this'. This is a new issue altogether. Maybe you could post a new question on this can so that we can have our discussion over there.– SatiCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 9:18
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You do demonstrate some difference between 应该 and 要求 in some degree, which is 'should' and 'asked' respectively. And 要求 is not just a 'asked' though.– danCommented Sep 9, 2017 at 9:33
·这是反问句的一种形式，用“不是······吗”表示事实应该这样。以否定式强调肯定的意思。 Using 不是······吗to express the meaning of certainty. Using a negative form to emphasize an affirmative meaning. 这句话的意思是要求每个小组（选一个代表）发言。The meaning is each group (choose a representative) is asked to speak. ·“单位”是指小组（group）/团队(team).汉语里经常用到它，不要按字面翻译成单位（unit）这个术语。 单位 is refer to group or team, but not jargon unit. ·以···为···这里“以”是把的意思，“为”是当作/作为 也就是把“每个小组”作为“一个团队” 这句话隐含的意思是只要小组的代表发言就可以，不需要每个人都演讲。 The implication of this sentence is that only the representatives of the group speak, not everyone speaks.
