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Equivalent question: What Chinese letters won't equal 1? (If I need to specify, then I guess I'll pick Mandarin)

From: the homophonic group: a mathematical diversion --> This is an exercise from Michael Artin's Algebra on, well, abstract algebra. In this exercise for the English language, words are equal if they are homophones, kind of like a formalisation of the joke that sin(x)/n=6. So in English:

bee=be --> This implies e=1 by cancellation of b and e.

buy=by --> This implies u=1 by cancellation of b and y.

rase=raze --> This implies s=z by cancellation of r and e.

canvass = canvas --> This implies s=1 by cancellation of c,a,n,v,a and s. By canvass=canvas and rase=raze, we have s=z=1.

Eventually, all 26 English letters will equal 1. Apparently, this was done for French and Czech.

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    How do you mathematical wise cancel a written glyph? – mootmoot Aug 16 '18 at 16:29
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    First of all, Chinese writing is not phonetic. If by "Chinese letters", you mean the letters used in Pinyin, then all homophones are spelled exactly the same, because the whole system is designed to reflect the pronunciation. This is different from a phonetic writing system where the written and spoken languages may have evolved over a long period of time (with certain elements more resistant to change than others) and you end up with things like different spellings for the same sound or different sounds for the same spelling. – monalisa Aug 16 '18 at 22:27
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    Humoring your (math and barely language related) question: If you use pinyin, it's a perfectly phonetic alphabet. Homophones always have identical spelling, so you won't be able to collapse anything down to 1 (if I understand the problem correctly). If you write out words in Chinese characters, you can end up with some relations like 皇=黄, which will lead you to have some equivalence classes of size >1. But I don't see how you could ever get a 1--that seems to require homophones written w/different numbers of characters, which is impossible. – Stumpy Joe Pete Aug 17 '18 at 0:08
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    There is no hanzi alphabet. – fefe Aug 17 '18 at 1:30
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    @BCLC "What's the hanzi alphabet?" Hanzi has no alphabet because as I said in previous comment, Chinese writing is not phonetic, and only phonetic writing systems use alphabets. – monalisa Aug 17 '18 at 3:02
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Chinese writing works differently, of course, to alphabetical writing.

  • If you define the basic unit of written Chinese as the character, then no Chinese character will equal 1, because there's no such thing as a silent Chinese character.*
  • If you define the basic unit of written Chinese as a stroke, then the homophonic group is trivial and is just the group comprising all strokes.
  • If you define the basic unit of written Chinese as all unicode-encoded decompositions (this is not a natural way of decomposing the written language), then non-1-value characters can be found by searching through a database for characters which aren't part of any other character. Examples can be found by Googling search terms like "CJKV Characters with the most strokes".

*I suppose if you wish to reduce expressions like "Aaaaah! (啊啊啊啊!)" then you could plausibly say that 啊 = 1...

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Your question talks about "Chinese letters". You need to clarify what you mean by "Chinese letters". The Chinese writing system is not phonetically based and has no alphabet as such.

If, by "Chinese letters", you are referring to the letters used in Pinyin (or any Romanization system for a Chinese dialect), then all homophones are spelled the same, and your method of cancelling out identical letters in homophones will not work, since all letters will be cancelled and there will be nothing left.

Languages with a phonetically based writing system have evolved over time, with certain elements more resistant to change. As a result, there are cases of multiple spellings for the same sound, and multiple sounds for the same spelling.

Pinyin is different. It is designed to help speakers to sound out the written characters, which is not phonetically based. With such a purpose, if the pronunciation of a written character should change, the spelling will also change to reflect that. All homophones are necessarily spelled identically, without exception.

I do not believe your homophonic group exercise will work on a non-phonetic writing system.

  • The last line is because there is no identity? Thanks monalisa! – BCLC Aug 18 '18 at 0:03
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There are few technical questions you need to deal with before you try to map it mathematically.

  1. Chinese glyphs itself is an abstract symbol, it doesn't tie with the speaking language. For example, the glyph 永,can be pronounced in many different dialects with, i.e. jun3 jun1 yun1 yung1 jun3 jun3 run3 jun3 wing5 iong2 uêng2

  2. Strokes of the Chinese glyph. There are 8 basic strokes, 28 sub-strokes.

  3. Due to no.1, many glyphs shared the same pronunciation. Even if you choose Pinyin alone, it just doesn't work.

  4. Chinese society pronounces each glyph individually. Mixing with fact no.3, you will notice it take a huge effort to change the habits. This required a totally new form of language structure.

One main ambition of the China communist party promote the use of Pinyin, is to Romanise Han-speaking. It stopped at the Romanize pinyin standard and go no further.

Due to the big difference in language structure, I doubt you can use the homophonic grouping.

(update) Perhaps the best analogy for the Chinese glyph speech and writing separation is the mathematic symbol. For example, the delta δ, it as nothing to do with the language spoken, it is a kind of abstraction.

  • You mean there is no identity and therefore not a group? Thanks! – BCLC Aug 17 '18 at 9:33
  • @BCLC what do you mean "there is no identity" ? – mootmoot Aug 17 '18 at 9:49
  • any group must have an identity soooo if nothing cancels in what would be the Chinese homophonic group, there is no identity in what would be the Chinese homophonic group and thus no chinese homophonic group – BCLC Aug 17 '18 at 9:51
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interesting question, here's a cantonese-driven approach:

in recent decades, there's a trend to de-compose chinese character (漢字) into components (部件). the 中央研究院文獻處理實驗室 suggested there're 1316 basic components.

http://chardb.iis.sinica.edu.tw/system_intro.jsp

next, the cantonese pronunciation juet3 has these characters:

剟叕咄啜嘬嚽惙拙掇揝攥敪柮梲棳橇欼歠毲毳泏準琡畷窋絀絕綴罬腏茁蕝蕞蝃蠿裰貀輟醊錣餟鵽黜

so,

剟 = 啜

this implied 刂 (u+5202) = 口 (u+53e3), by cancellation of 叕 (u+53d5)

綴 = 輟

this implied 糸 (u+7cf8) = 車 (u+8eca), by cancellation of 叕 (u+53d5)

and then, what can i conclude here?

sorry for the termination here, cause my mathematic is not good enough :)

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