Timeline for Why is it written LIU in Pinyin, when there's clearly an O sound?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
20 events
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| Mar 13, 2019 at 3:34 | comment | added | hippietrail | I believe that other Romanization systems were invented to assist foreigners with consistent ways to write each distinct sound whereas Pinyin was invented to supplement Hanzi and eventually replace it for use by native speakers who already knew all the distinct sounds. Everybody knew what sounds do and don't exist in Mandarin so they could economize on number of letters needed per sound. Basically, Pinyin is not for foreign learners, it's for native speakers. You need to learn Pinyin spelling just as you'd learn French spelling. It's consistent but not obvious without an introduction. | |
| Jun 20, 2014 at 19:14 | vote | accept | Petruza | ||
| Jun 19, 2014 at 3:14 | comment | added | Ming | @Petruza you asked "Why liu, jiu, niu and not yu instead of you?" but it doesn't seem you got an answer? The most obvious thing to me is that, because there is no "liu" sound, only "liou" sound, it was able to be made into shorthand. However, there are both "you" (like 油, yóu, oil) and "yu" (like 鱼, yú, fish) sounds, so it cannot be shortened down. Now then, if it was able to be shortened down, why did they, then making the lettering inconsistent? That could be another carry-over from the old 注音符号 system, possibly. | |
| Jan 22, 2012 at 19:09 | history | edited | Alenanno | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 22, 2012 at 19:08 | comment | added | Alenanno | Well, if you think about it, "you" and "wu" do have initials which are "y" and "w" respectively. About 阿, I kind of forgot to mention that some finals can stand by themselves. I'll edit this... You can check that link I provided to see which ones can stand alone. | |
| Jan 22, 2012 at 18:53 | comment | added | Petruza | Ok, I get the impression that it was just letter ecnomization and no other specific reason. About that there can't be a syllable without initial, what about 阿 a? I regard you, wu as simply not having initial, but whatever. | |
| Jan 22, 2012 at 14:57 | comment | added | Alenanno | @Petruza I added some other details; not sure if they answer completely, but hope they help further. :) | |
| Jan 22, 2012 at 14:56 | history | edited | Alenanno | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 21, 2012 at 0:59 | comment | added | Petruza | @Claw your comment looks like a possible answer. | |
| Jan 21, 2012 at 0:51 | comment | added | Claw | @Alenanno: It's just my guess; that's why I said "The answer may simply be..." I can't find any documentation otherwise. | |
| Jan 21, 2012 at 0:09 | comment | added | Alenanno | @Petruza Tomorrow I'll try to look for some references if I find any and update the answer in case. | |
| Jan 20, 2012 at 23:10 | comment | added | Alenanno | @Claw You're correct, it can't be to that, I just realized that... I subconsciously felt like it was another alphabet and forgot that it was actually something very recent. My bad. :P I deleted the comment because it was simply wrong. By the way, thanks for the summary, but is it a guess you're making or can we find some documentation on that? | |
| Jan 20, 2012 at 22:44 | comment | added | Claw | I don't think it's "certainly related to the phonologic evolution", given that Pinyin was devised in the past century. Most other romanization schemes (e.g., Wade-Giles, Yale, Gwoyeu Romatzyh, etc.) retain the 'o' in the romanization. The answer may simply be for reducing redundancy and increasing conciseness in spelling (i.e., since the -iu sound doesn't exist in Mandarin, it's safe to use it to represent the -iou sound). Other cases where this happens is with -uei -> -ui, -uen -> un, ü -> u after j/q/x, and -uo -> -o after b/p/m/f. | |
| Jan 20, 2012 at 21:32 | comment | added | Petruza | Yeah, I guess there's no simple answer to this. | |
| Jan 20, 2012 at 21:10 | comment | added | Petruza | I know, it says how it's written. What I ask is why. | |
| Jan 20, 2012 at 21:09 | comment | added | Alenanno | It's written in the last sentence: "It is written as you when it stands alone, and as iu when it is preceded by a consonant (for example, diu, niu, liu)." | |
| Jan 20, 2012 at 21:03 | comment | added | Petruza | Ok, this says it happens, but why or what for is the question. Why liu, jiu, niu and not yu instead of you? | |
| Jan 19, 2012 at 23:52 | history | edited | Alenanno | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 19, 2012 at 23:16 | comment | added | Alenanno | By the way, I forgot to mention that I was mislead too at first eheheh... :D | |
| Jan 19, 2012 at 23:13 | history | answered | Alenanno | CC BY-SA 3.0 |